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Full Version: Baldwin (top trade economist) on Brexit:
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This is one of the best things I've read and should interest anyone be they a Brexiteer or a Remainer:

http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/events/1611070...tation.pdf
Great summary. Shows what an almighty mess it is.
Slide 9 shows to me how important it is to UK over everyone else.
Thanks for that.
Just a shame our shit media didn't present facts like this in the run up to the referendum.
4% of UKIP voters opted to remain in EU, crazy mixed up fools.
(11-18-2016, 07:57 PM)logic1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just a shame our shit media didn't present facts like this in the run up to the referendum.

Those 'facts' were available - people chose to still vote leave.

The 'facts' that weren't available was the document published by the EU 2 days after the referendum about the direction the EU was heading in, mind if you did a bit of digging it was known that they wouldn't publish it because they thought it may affect the result.

The EU is a wannabe country, but it is not.

It has no common currency, though it now insists that all joining members adopt the Euro. I suspect there will come a day, if the EU has it's way, when it insists that all members adopt the Euro.

It also insists that internal border checks are all but abandoned for all joining members, likewise there will come a day when it insists this applies to all member countries, though it does seem that a number of countries are rebelling against this dictat.

It don't believe it can continue with the odd country being allowed to veto the majority. Someday majority will have to rule, because if not it will remain a donkey with multiple legs kicking in different directions.

As it is not a country, it's freedom of movement rules are discriminatory and arguably racist. It discriminates in favour of it's member countries against the majority of the countries in the world. Immigration should not be judged on having the passport of a particular country or organisation but by the skills and needs of a country regardless of where the immigrants were born and using a level playing field in it's selection process.

It is also protectionist.

There is no status quo, whichever way the vote had gone, things cannot remain the same. It seems that it is presented that we don't know what will happen if we leave, likewise we don't know what will happen if we remain.
Excellent post Strawman
(11-19-2016, 09:15 AM)Strawman Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-18-2016, 07:57 PM)logic1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just a shame our shit media didn't present facts like this in the run up to the referendum.

Those 'facts' were available - people chose to still vote leave.

The 'facts' that weren't available was the document published by the EU 2 days after the referendum about the direction the EU was heading in, mind if you did a bit of digging it was known that they wouldn't publish it because they thought it may affect the result.

The EU is a wannabe country, but it is not.

It has no common currency, though it now insists that all joining members adopt the Euro. I suspect there will come a day, if the EU has it's way, when it insists that all members adopt the Euro.

It also insists that internal border checks are all but abandoned for all joining members, likewise there will come a day when it insists this applies to all member countries, though it does seem that a number of countries are rebelling against this dictat.

It don't believe it can continue with the odd country being allowed to veto the majority. Someday majority will have to rule, because if not it will remain a donkey with multiple legs kicking in different directions.

As it is not a country, it's freedom of movement rules are discriminatory and arguably racist. It discriminates in favour of it's member countries against the majority of the countries in the world. Immigration should not be judged on having the passport of a particular country or organisation but by the skills and needs of a country regardless of where the immigrants were born and using a level playing field in it's selection process.

It is also protectionist.

There is no status quo, whichever way the vote had gone, things cannot remain the same. It seems that it is presented that we don't know what will happen if we leave, likewise we don't know what will happen if we remain.

What document by the EU 2 days after the referendum - I haven't seen it can you post it?

The problem with the EU - and it is a problem EU politicians need to wake up to before it's too late - is that free trade in goods and services and free flows of workers are not actually needed at the same time. It is possible to have one without the other. Indeed the two are in someways substitutes not necessarily complements. There is no doubt that freedom of movement enhances growth but given the fact that UK growth is highly concentrated in one particular sector (finance - caused by neoliberalism i.e. Thatcherism & Blairism) and that inequality is like it was in the early 20th century, the free flow of low-skilled labour into poorer regions of the UK has pissed a lot of people off regardless of whether it boosts growth or not. People are just not bothered about growth (they stupidly vote for austerity), after all - only the wealthy benefit from it! They do however care about the cultural identity of their communities and anyone who denies that is deluded. If the EU were to allow tougher immigration controls for each country and continued single market access to goods and services then the hard rights effectiveness would be hugely diminished, notably in France. We could remain as members of the EU, keep the single market and be active in reforming it. Sadly this is not going to happen and the UK will be treated like the Germans treated the Greeks. We will be used as an example. They will try to punish us. If they do so they are fucking stupid but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
The EU is committed to "ever closer Union". There was and is no chance of market reform.

Your suggestion that the Germans will treat the UK "like the Greeks" is utterly, utterly preposterous.
(11-21-2016, 05:03 PM)Protheroe Wrote: [ -> ]The EU is committed to "ever closer Union". There was and is no chance of market reform.

Your suggestion that the Germans will treat the UK "like the Greeks" is utterly, utterly preposterous.

In the sense that they will treat us like scapegoats i.e. they will give us tough terms to try to ensure no other EU country tries to leave on good terms. Fortunately we have our own currency and monetary policy so we can't be screwed over like the Greeks.
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