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I suspect it will be quite painful in the short term and, listening to a phone-in this morning, I think farmers and care homes are going to be particularly hard hit. There can't be many of their employees earning above £25.6k.

A couple of years ago, I had a go at the on-line Aussie test, just out of interest. I'm an IT consultant with an Economics degree and failed to get the points required (I suspect being aged about 50 at the time counted against me).
In theory it makes good sense but why it's being made out to be something new I'm not certain, we already have a points based system in place.

In practice it only works as long as farmers, hotels or bars manage to get the low-skill staff that they need. These aren't the multi-million pound businesses that can afford to pay more to get staff in, they won't run at a loss so they will simply close. You only have to go into any coffee shop or bar to see how many of the staff are foreign to understand how many we need. Added to that is our lowest unemployment level for decades and the unemployed that don't want to work then you see this is just a soundbite policy that says the right things but will be unworkable.
(02-19-2020, 12:16 PM)baggy1 Wrote: [ -> ]In theory it makes good sense but why it's being made out to be something new I'm not certain, we already have a points based system in place.

In practice it only works as long as farmers, hotels or bars manage to get the low-skill staff that they need. These are the multi-million pound businesses that can afford to pay more to get staff in, they won't run at a loss so they will simply close. You only have to go into any coffee shop or bar to see how many of the staff are foreign to understand how many we need. Added to that is our lowest unemployment level for decades and the unemployed that don't want to work then you see this is just a soundbite policy that says the right things but will be unworkable.

In addition the Government are intending to start on a programme of major infrastructure projects, at a time of full employment, who do they think is going to build those 40 hospitals ?

It's another example of a lack of coherence which is endemic in modern politics.

I am looking forward to the budget where Sunak will perform a brilliant magic trick of an economic policy where taxation is not increased, Govt borrowing is not increased beyond self imposed fiscal rules and Govt spending is to be massively increased.
(02-19-2020, 01:22 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-19-2020, 12:16 PM)baggy1 Wrote: [ -> ]In theory it makes good sense but why it's being made out to be something new I'm not certain, we already have a points based system in place.

In practice it only works as long as farmers, hotels or bars manage to get the low-skill staff that they need. These are the multi-million pound businesses that can afford to pay more to get staff in, they won't run at a loss so they will simply close. You only have to go into any coffee shop or bar to see how many of the staff are foreign to understand how many we need. Added to that is our lowest unemployment level for decades and the unemployed that don't want to work then you see this is just a soundbite policy that says the right things but will be unworkable.

In addition the Government are intending to start on a programme of major infrastructure projects, at a time of full employment, who do they think is going to build those 40 hospitals ?

It's another example of a lack of coherence which is endemic in modern politics.

I am looking forward to the budget where Sunak will perform a brilliant magic trick of an economic policy where taxation is not increased, Govt borrowing is not increased beyond self imposed fiscal rules and Govt spending is to be massively increased.

Maybe / apparently it will be the economically inactive so the disabled, those who care full time for someone who is disabled, the retired, the sick and those who don't want to work and would be a nightmare to anyone they came into contact with. 

The question then is who looks after the disabled, ill, dementia sufferer who cannot work, whilst their family carer is out at work, who is going to work in the prisons to keep those who refused to work in prison instead of robbing / selling drugs? I'm sure this government has thought this through! Their record for the last ten years of coherent, joined up thinking has been impeccable.

We are not a pleasant country anymore sadly.
My son's girlfriend works for a NHS recruitment company and had to travel up north to carry out some interviews for staff to carry out low level hospital duties. Of the interviews one didn't turn up with no reason and another couldn't find a parking space so just went home instead of parking on the street (she lived 5 minutes walk from the interview). She says this happens all of the time because they have to show that they want jobs to keep their benefits but have no intention of working.
Derek made the point about the economically inactive - an expression which is now being laboured to death by 'spokespersons' and representatives of 'independent' think tanks. This catch-all category has its numbers inflated by all manner of groups who are actually irrelevant to the reality of the issue; unless Sunak, Dr Coffey and others really believe that there is an army of early retirees out there just ready to return to the front line and pick radishes.

And, as always, the equation is unbalanced. Let's for instance factor in the value of those "economically inactive" who are anything but - the ones who volunteer for charities and community groups. Value them - even at minimum wage - and see what the figure adds up to.

I worked for 15 years for a charity; just a local branch of a national organisation. The volunteers contributed more than 30,000 hours annually: valued at minimum wage that adds up to more than a quarter of a million. And that's just one medium-sized local, voluntary sector organisation. Perhaps the government think we're all so stupid that we won't notice.
(02-19-2020, 03:26 PM)Ossian Wrote: [ -> ]Derek made the point about the economically inactive - an expression which is now being laboured to death by 'spokespersons' and representatives of 'independent' think tanks. This catch-all category has its numbers inflated by all manner of groups who are actually irrelevant to the reality of the issue; unless Sunak, Dr Coffey and others really believe that there is an army of early retirees out there just ready to return to the front line and pick radishes.

And, as always, the equation is unbalanced. Let's for instance factor in the value of those "economically inactive" who are anything but - the ones who volunteer for charities and community groups. Value them - even at minimum wage - and see what the figure adds up to.

I worked for 15 years for a charity; just a local branch of a national organisation. The volunteers contributed more than 30,000 hours annually: valued at minimum wage that adds up to more than a quarter of a million. And that's just one medium-sized local, voluntary sector organisation. Perhaps the government think we're all so stupid that we won't notice.

You can add to that the thousands / millions of pounds that those that care for their family members save the government in terms of care each year. If every parent of a severely disabled child, or sick elderly relative for example placed them in care how much would that cost the tax payer in comparison to the pittance they receive via the state?
Not so pretty Patel admits her parents would not have been allowed into uk under her rules.
In every new rule there are holes in it personally I think it's a good idea .all we want in this country is the best of the best what's so hard to understand that..these companies have been taking the piss for years paying shit wages.
When applicants reach the required points, whether by truthful or manufactured means, will they automatically be granted visas?
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