WBAunofficial

Full Version: Juncker's State Of The EUnion Address
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
A single EU President
The end of vetoes
An EU Finance Minister & harmonisation of taxation
Extension of Schengen zone
An EU Army
Enforced adoption of the Euro

All of these issues were denounced as fantasy by the Remain campaign (and in the case of the EU Army "A dangerous fantasy" - Nick Clegg).

As I said at the time, the status quo was never on the ballot paper.

It's almost as though Remainers didn't know what they were voting for.....
(09-13-2017, 10:06 AM)Protheroe Wrote: [ -> ]A single EU President
The end of vetoes
An EU Finance Minister & harmonisation of taxation
Extension of Schengen zone
An EU Army
Enforced adoption of the Euro

All of these issues were denounced as fantasy by the Remain campaign (and in the case of the EU Army "A dangerous fantasy" - Nick Clegg).

As I said at the time, the status quo was never on the ballot paper.

It's almost as though Remainers didn't know what they were voting for.....

Do you think with the UK still in that would pass? All of the above are things we vehemently opposed. Now we are going federalists like Juncker can start to push for a closer union, knowing that the biggest stumbling block is leaving.
Yes. Of course it would. "Ever closer Union" has always won out one way or the other.
(09-13-2017, 12:06 PM)Protheroe Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Of course it would. "Ever closer Union" has always won out one way or the other.

Ignoring all of our opt outs and vetoes that have prevented it over the years. None of what you said has any realistic chance of passing while the UK is a member of the EU.
(09-13-2017, 12:15 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-13-2017, 12:06 PM)Protheroe Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Of course it would. "Ever closer Union" has always won out one way or the other.

Ignoring all of our opt outs and vetoes that have prevented it over the years. None of what you said has any realistic chance of passing while the UK is a member of the EU.

exactly that.
Juncker isn't going to get his way on a lot of that as not many other countries want it either.
(09-13-2017, 12:15 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-13-2017, 12:06 PM)Protheroe Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Of course it would. "Ever closer Union" has always won out one way or the other.

Ignoring all of our opt outs and vetoes that have prevented it over the years. None of what you said has any realistic chance of passing while the UK is a member of the EU.

Except it's all being planned now.

Given the trajectory of the constituent parts of the EU - further and deeper integration quickly is the only way to hold it together:


Quote:What a pickle. If Brexit is a success, it will bolster anti-EU sentiment across Europe. If Brexit is sabotaged by the EU, it will expose the EU’s nature… and bolster anti-EU sentiment across Europe and elsewhere.

The EU must feel surrounded by problems. To the west, the UK is leaving. To the south, bizarre government budgets require steady bailouts, support from non-EU institutions, and absurd monetary policy. In the north, the mood for integration is fizzling. And in the east, you have open defiance of EU policy. Behind that, literally and financially, you have Russia.

You might think Brexit is the big story of the lot. It obviously is for Brits. But I’m not so sure Brexit itself is the key to Brexit. That resides in how the EU reacts to our departure.

One year ago, I was touring eastern Europe with the Free Market Road Show. A bundle of speakers from all around the world tried to espouse free-market values and explain the benefits to an audience between 50 and 500 people across dozens of cities.

We talked about the surprising amount of Land Rovers at Moldova’s border with EU nations, why Uber was turning to governments for protection like former Soviet state-owned enterprises, and how so-called free trade agreements are like a thief offering to give you back some of the cash they stole in the first place. Then we’d charge off to the next city.

The flaw in the plan, as I could see it, was that some in the audience implicitly understood what we said and therefore planned to leave for western Europe at the earliest opportunity to join the others who had figured it out.

The rest of the audience planned to work for the government because that’s the only secure job around. In other words, the collectivist culture dying around them had turned the locals into individualists of the wrong kind. Runaways and those motivated by fear, not optimism, ambition or wealth.

That explains why eastern Europe is turning nationalist. People want the security once promised to them. Those willing to pursue a dynamic life have left for western Europe. And the rest turn to a strong government.

Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and soon Czechia, which changed its name from Czech Republic without anyone bothering to take note, have all fallen to eurosceptic, anti-immigration and populist leaders. Many of Italy’s leading parties increasingly campaign for a new currency too. The movement didn’t die with Marine Le Pen.

But back to eastern Europe because it’s the key to Europe’s future. These are the nations supposedly benefiting most from being inside the EU.

The first thing you notice in these poorer nations of the EU is how many bridges the EU has built there. Bright blue footbridges proudly declaring EU funds built them scatter the countryside in all sorts of surprising places. Behind one such bridge on the way to Montenegro I saw a queue for an outhouse in the middle of a bunch of fields. The American sitting next to me in the car asked what it is and why there are people queueing there.

Of course, it’s not just bridges and EU government funds. Western European companies have used the east’s low cost of labour to build factories. I met a Swiss-German packaging magnate who had filled eastern Europe with his booming factories. Thomas Piketty recently wrote in one of his co-authored economics papers that eastern European countries are “Foreign-owned countries”. Foreign direct investment has been pouring in at an enormous pace. This means profits flow straight back out of the country too.

The whole deal doesn’t look so good from their point of view. Czechia’s president recently declared the country would be better off rejecting the EU’s refugee quota and forgoing EU subsidies.

These sorts of problems are inherent in the EU. Throwing a bunch of cats into a bag and beating it with regulations and mass refugee immigration does not work well to promote harmony even if you pour in cream. Eastern European states are familiar with unions that benefit others.

Signs of the breakdown are spreading right across Europe though. I spent half an hour waiting at the German/Austrian and Austrian/Italian border in the last few days thanks to border controls. Google Maps explains how to bypass them with its traffic warnings if you bother to check in time.

The cracks in the EU are getting deeper all the time. This results in good and bad changes. With the UK gone, it will increasingly be bad changes. Negotiating with an EU that has its back to the wall will be hard.

We're off just at the right time. My avatar wasn't supposed to be an instruction manual.
Of course it's being planned now, it's always been planned. What Juncker listed off was an idealised EU for an extreme federalist, he would have gone over every scenario as a politician over and over again. The problem is that while the UK is or was a member, there is or was zero chance of it happening. Us leaving is what will cause it, and any fears around it happening if we had remained are unfounded bollocks.
(09-13-2017, 04:54 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: [ -> ]any fears around it happening if we had remained are unfounded bollocks.

I'll take your unfounded bollocks and raise you a "profound & immediate economic aftershock"...
(09-13-2017, 09:18 PM)Protheroe Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-13-2017, 04:54 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: [ -> ]any fears around it happening if we had remained are unfounded bollocks.

I'll take your unfounded bollocks and raise you a "profound & immediate economic aftershock"...

Ah, a straw man argument. I expected better.
"straw man" <groans>

Don't tell me that me the UK would have been somehow immune from the federalist tendencies if we'd voted to Remain. It would only have encouraged them FFS sake.
Pages: 1 2