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Utter, pile of shite. Yes we scored 2 goals but after the first 20 minute it was unorganised, incepid, slow and passive. 

I can only put this down to TP today. His inability to make a positive change when ahead really holds us back at times. McLean was the right move, but adding Livermore to the other 2 was just stupid, then moving JRod wide to make it a flat 5 was just awful.

We were crying out for somebody who could look after the ball, and fresh legs.

McLean, Chadli and HRK for; Phillips, Brunt & Rondon would have given us more leg and energy with somebody to get hold of the ball and look after it.

No positives and not even worth doing the player ratings or breaking the game down.
Again, just my opinion, a late goal often brings forth a big reaction from everyone. As stated in another post, I was more dissapointed after Brighton and West Ham.
For me, the sub's themselves werent so bad. HRK had more running than a tired Rondon and created one good chance and a few half ones. Livermore did quite well in midfield.Really it was more of the same but fresher legs and perhaps a change of tactics may have been more effective than a change of personnel. Although, of course, we didn't lose the game.
I genuinely don't think today is the cause for meltdown but the regular empty seats and continued discontent, plus the refusal to solve the striker problem, are issues that will always resurface when we don't win.
(09-30-2017, 06:43 PM)swordfish Wrote: [ -> ]Again, just my opinion, a late goal often brings forth a big reaction from everyone. As stated in another post, I was more dissapointed after Brighton and West Ham.
For me, the sub's themselves werent so bad. HRK had more running than a tired Rondon and created one good chance and a few half ones. Livermore did quite well in midfield.Really it was more of the same but fresher legs and perhaps a change of tactics may have been more effective than a change of personnel. Although, of course, we didn't lose the game.
I genuinely don't think today is the cause for meltdown but the regular empty seats and continued discontent, plus the refusal to solve the striker problem, are issues that will always resurface when we don't win.

+1
(09-30-2017, 06:43 PM)swordfish Wrote: [ -> ]Again, just my opinion, a late goal often brings forth a big reaction from everyone. As stated in another post, I was more dissapointed after Brighton and West Ham.
For me, the sub's themselves werent so bad. HRK had more running than a tired Rondon and created one good chance and a few half ones. Livermore did quite well in midfield.Really it was more of the same but fresher legs and perhaps a change of tactics may have been more effective than a change of personnel. Although, of course, we didn't lose the game.
I genuinely don't think today is the cause for meltdown but the regular empty seats and continued discontent, plus the refusal to solve the striker problem, are issues that will always resurface when we don't win.
I agree with that and think there is also a bit of arrogance thinking we should beat Watford at home. I hadn’t really seen them before this season but they were fantastic.
(09-30-2017, 07:34 PM)clem4england Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 06:43 PM)swordfish Wrote: [ -> ]Again, just my opinion, a late goal often brings forth a big reaction from everyone. As stated in another post, I was more dissapointed after Brighton and West Ham.
For me, the sub's themselves werent so bad. HRK had more running than a tired Rondon and created one good chance and a few half ones. Livermore did quite well in midfield.Really it was more of the same but fresher legs and perhaps a change of tactics may have been more effective than a change of personnel. Although, of course, we didn't lose the game.
I genuinely don't think today is the cause for meltdown but the regular empty seats and continued discontent, plus the refusal to solve the striker problem, are issues that will always resurface when we don't win.
I agree with that and think there is also a bit of arrogance thinking we should beat Watford at home. I hadn’t really seen them before this season but they were fantastic.

They're a good side, a draw is actually the best anyone has done against them away this season. Not saying we shouldn't have done better but results wise it's not a disaster
(09-30-2017, 08:15 PM)TartanRug Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 07:34 PM)clem4england Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 06:43 PM)swordfish Wrote: [ -> ]Again, just my opinion, a late goal often brings forth a big reaction from everyone. As stated in another post, I was more dissapointed after Brighton and West Ham.
For me, the sub's themselves werent so bad. HRK had more running than a tired Rondon and created one good chance and a few half ones. Livermore did quite well in midfield.Really it was more of the same but fresher legs and perhaps a change of tactics may have been more effective than a change of personnel. Although, of course, we didn't lose the game.
I genuinely don't think today is the cause for meltdown but the regular empty seats and continued discontent, plus the refusal to solve the striker problem, are issues that will always resurface when we don't win.
I agree with that and think there is also a bit of arrogance thinking we should beat Watford at home. I hadn’t really seen them before this season but they were fantastic.

They're a good side, a draw is actually the best anyone has done against them away this season. Not saying we shouldn't have done better but results wise it's not a disaster
Agree with that watford were well worth a point , what confounds me is our inability to keep possesion for any meaingfull time and our frustratingly suicidal habit of giving the ball away far too cheaply we then retreat deeper and deeper and invite the opposition on to us then means we cannot mount a serious attack as we have no out ball , we played well for 2o mins but once we were 2-0 up we didnt know wether to stick or twist this indecision allowed watford to regroup and put us under pressure from which they pulled a goal back albeit via shite defending ,if we had pushed on for a 3rd at 3-0 the game would have over and it would have seriously demotivated watford , same 2nd half at 3-1 game over but we reverted to type AGAIN and allowed them to dictate play with our hoofed balls upfield which just kept coming back, the subsitutions were baffling why take phillips of his pace caused them problems brunt ok he a poor game by his standards but why bring livermore on who did fugg all chadli would have been a better bet and would have given watford something to think about , if not why didnt  he push Krychowiak further forward he looks good going forward , did anyone else notice how pissed off the pole looked at the end when he walk off.
If we end up pissing him off then we deserve the accolade of mid table champioshit club.
(09-30-2017, 08:45 PM)Tetley74 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 08:15 PM)TartanRug Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 07:34 PM)clem4england Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 06:43 PM)swordfish Wrote: [ -> ]Again, just my opinion, a late goal often brings forth a big reaction from everyone. As stated in another post, I was more dissapointed after Brighton and West Ham.
For me, the sub's themselves werent so bad. HRK had more running than a tired Rondon and created one good chance and a few half ones. Livermore did quite well in midfield.Really it was more of the same but fresher legs and perhaps a change of tactics may have been more effective than a change of personnel. Although, of course, we didn't lose the game.
I genuinely don't think today is the cause for meltdown but the regular empty seats and continued discontent, plus the refusal to solve the striker problem, are issues that will always resurface when we don't win.
I agree with that and think there is also a bit of arrogance thinking we should beat Watford at home. I hadn’t really seen them before this season but they were fantastic.

They're a good side, a draw is actually the best anyone has done against them away this season. Not saying we shouldn't have done better but results wise it's not a disaster
Agree with that watford were well worth a point , what confounds me is our inability to keep possesion for any meaingfull time and our frustratingly suicidal habit of giving the ball away far too cheaply we then retreat deeper and deeper and invite the opposition on to us then means we cannot mount a serious attack as we have no out ball , we played well for 2o mins but once we were 2-0 up we didnt know wether to stick or twist this indecision allowed watford to regroup and put us under pressure from which they pulled a goal back albeit via shite defending ,if we had pushed on for a 3rd at 3-0 the game would have over and it would have seriously demotivated watford , same 2nd half at 3-1 game over but we reverted to type AGAIN and allowed them to dictate play with our hoofed balls upfield which just kept coming back, the subsitutions were baffling why take phillips of his pace caused them problems brunt ok he a poor game by his standards but why bring livermore on who did fugg all chadli would have been a better bet and would have given watford something to think about , if not why didnt  he push Krychowiak further forward he looks good going forward , did anyone else notice how pissed off the pole looked at the end when he walk off.
Top post Tetley - at 2-0 up I said call the Samaritans, we're going to commit suicide...
The only disorganised passage of play came for their first goal. The rest of the game the shape of the team was bang on.
(09-30-2017, 08:45 PM)Tetley74 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 08:15 PM)TartanRug Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 07:34 PM)clem4england Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2017, 06:43 PM)swordfish Wrote: [ -> ]Again, just my opinion, a late goal often brings forth a big reaction from everyone. As stated in another post, I was more dissapointed after Brighton and West Ham.
For me, the sub's themselves werent so bad. HRK had more running than a tired Rondon and created one good chance and a few half ones. Livermore did quite well in midfield.Really it was more of the same but fresher legs and perhaps a change of tactics may have been more effective than a change of personnel. Although, of course, we didn't lose the game.
I genuinely don't think today is the cause for meltdown but the regular empty seats and continued discontent, plus the refusal to solve the striker problem, are issues that will always resurface when we don't win.
I agree with that and think there is also a bit of arrogance thinking we should beat Watford at home. I hadn’t really seen them before this season but they were fantastic.

They're a good side, a draw is actually the best anyone has done against them away this season. Not saying we shouldn't have done better but results wise it's not a disaster
Agree with that watford were well worth a point , what confounds me is our inability to keep possesion for any meaingfull time and our frustratingly suicidal habit of giving the ball away far too cheaply we then retreat deeper and deeper and invite the opposition on to us then means we cannot mount a serious attack as we have no out ball , we played well for 2o mins but once we were 2-0 up we didnt know wether to stick or twist this indecision allowed watford to regroup and put us under pressure from which they pulled a goal back albeit via shite defending ,if we had pushed on for a 3rd at 3-0 the game would have over and it would have seriously demotivated watford , same 2nd half at 3-1 game over but we reverted to type AGAIN and allowed them to dictate play with our hoofed balls upfield which just kept coming back, the subsitutions were baffling why take phillips of his pace caused them problems brunt ok he a poor game by his standards but why bring livermore on who did fugg all chadli would have been a better bet and would have given watford something to think about , if not why didnt  he push Krychowiak further forward he looks good going forward , did anyone else notice how pissed off the pole looked at the end when he walk off.

Phillips was rightly taken off as he looked poor all game. Rodriguez should have gone with him too. I'm not sure he's good enough. But in theory Brunt, Dawson and Rondon were all shocking today. That's half the team. Really only Gibbs played well in defence.

I'm just sick of the general quality of football we're dishing up. It is fucking terrible. It really is. I pay hundreds of pounds to watch another team dominate possession. That's fine if we manage to win but if not then what's the point?

As someone brilliantly said. If you can't defend then what's the point of Tony Pulis?