Hartlepool
(05-13-2021, 10:00 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: Is it to impertinent a question to ask, how we got to the situation where people in work need to go to food banks.

Rising living costs (predominantly housing) and the fact that unscrupulous companies don't pay workers a fair wage due them being able to be effectively subsidised by the state and charity.

(05-13-2021, 10:35 AM)Fido Wrote: A simplistic answer from personal experience. We lived in a semi-detached house (in Belbroughton) where one moderately paid salary-earner could pay for the mortgage plus usual outgoings and a holiday each year and with a supplement from a part-time cleaning job for little extras. My assumption would be that buying or renting that same house today would mean to afford the above that would require two decent if not above-average earners with one of the main elements being the mortgage. Of course there will be other factors and lifestyles have changed significantly but housing supply and inflation is surely the largest in most cases.

I've brought this up before, I earn more than my parents did when they bought the house I grew up in combined when adjusted for inflation. I could not get a mortgage for that house now, even though I could theoretically pay more than they did on the deposit (adjusted for inflation again). I don't want to live in that house mind as I don't need a 4 bedroom semi detached house, but it's the principle.

And, as it's at the absolute edge of commutable to London but still a semi-rural town surrounded by green-belt, the house prices here have gone up a stupid amount over the last 12 months.
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(05-13-2021, 10:40 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:35 AM)Fido Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:00 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: Is it to impertinent a question to ask, how we got to the situation where people in work need to go to food banks.

A simplistic answer from personal experience. We lived in a semi-detached house (in Belbroughton) where one moderately paid salary-earner could pay for the mortgage plus usual outgoings and a holiday each year and with a supplement from a part-time cleaning job for little extras. My assumption would be that buying or renting that same house today would mean to afford the above that would require two decent if not above-average earners with one of the main elements being the mortgage. Of course there will be other factors and lifestyles have changed significantly but housing supply and inflation is surely the largest in most cases.

Nailed it - now lets go to the party of landlords, bankers and property owners to get their solution to this problem.

I personally would be behind taxing the bollox off anyone who has rental homes but that's just a personal opinion. There are properties in cities everywhere that people are just sitting on, watching appreciate, that could come into the housing supply which aren't.
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I would consider preventing any more properties being in the hands of private landlords for rent. And the number of new properties that do so is a disgrace.

And you lot say I am right-wing?

Nope.
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(05-13-2021, 11:08 AM)Fido Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:40 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:35 AM)Fido Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:00 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: Is it to impertinent a question to ask, how we got to the situation where people in work need to go to food banks.

A simplistic answer from personal experience. We lived in a semi-detached house (in Belbroughton) where one moderately paid salary-earner could pay for the mortgage plus usual outgoings and a holiday each year and with a supplement from a part-time cleaning job for little extras. My assumption would be that buying or renting that same house today would mean to afford the above that would require two decent if not above-average earners with one of the main elements being the mortgage. Of course there will be other factors and lifestyles have changed significantly but housing supply and inflation is surely the largest in most cases.

Nailed it - now lets go to the party of landlords, bankers and property owners to get their solution to this problem.

I personally would be behind taxing the bollox off anyone who has rental homes but that's just a personal opinion. There are properties in cities everywhere that people are just sitting on, watching appreciate, that could come into the housing supply which aren't.

Agree with this but the party of (and funded by) landlords, bankers and property owners aren't going to implement that. You've identified one of the key items to improving the UK and also know that the party you support will never go for that, that is some dilemma.

(05-13-2021, 11:16 AM)Bortolazzi's Barnet Wrote: I would consider preventing any more properties being in the hands of private landlords for rent. And the number of new properties that do so is a disgrace.

And you lot say I am right-wing?

Nope.

No we say you are a nut - what about the companies, and if that law came in I would just set up a limited company if I were a landlord. I can see why you are so highly thought of in policy decision making circles.
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(05-13-2021, 09:11 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 08:55 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 08:51 AM)baggy1 Wrote: So we've moved from the social and political failures that have left us in a developed wealthy country where the most vulnerable need handouts to get by, to patting ourselves on the back because we've solved the problem and it's simple as we just need more charitable institutions where those that have can give some scraps off the table if they are that way inclined.

Well done boys, you've excelled yourselves.

No. The more rational amongst us have noticed that the third sector has, for more than two centuries, been exceptionally effective in delivering services at a local level to those in need - and that it might, just might - be better to rely in some part on the inate generosity of the human spirit than for the state to continually pick peoples' pockets and deliver an inferior outcome.

Absolute nonsense. Charities as big / well known as Acorns for example who look after life children who are genuinely the most vulnerable in society nearly went to the wall in the Black Country through a lack of funds over the last three years. That is not uplifting it’s a very sad reflection on our society that it ever came close to having to be closed or indeed needed the generosity of people in the first place to exist. The quote... "How a society treats its most vulnerable is always the measure of its humanity."

Acorns Walsall was saved by public generosity. One of the organisations I belong to donated £5,000 alone out of £24,000 donated in the last year to hospices around the West Midlands.

Is there another example you'd like to use to prove my point?
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(05-13-2021, 11:27 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 11:08 AM)Fido Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:40 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:35 AM)Fido Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:00 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: Is it to impertinent a question to ask, how we got to the situation where people in work need to go to food banks.

A simplistic answer from personal experience. We lived in a semi-detached house (in Belbroughton) where one moderately paid salary-earner could pay for the mortgage plus usual outgoings and a holiday each year and with a supplement from a part-time cleaning job for little extras. My assumption would be that buying or renting that same house today would mean to afford the above that would require two decent if not above-average earners with one of the main elements being the mortgage. Of course there will be other factors and lifestyles have changed significantly but housing supply and inflation is surely the largest in most cases.

Nailed it - now lets go to the party of landlords, bankers and property owners to get their solution to this problem.

I personally would be behind taxing the bollox off anyone who has rental homes but that's just a personal opinion. There are properties in cities everywhere that people are just sitting on, watching appreciate, that could come into the housing supply which aren't.

Agree with this but the party of (and funded by) landlords, bankers and property owners aren't going to implement that. You've identified one of the key items to improving the UK and also know that the party you support will never go for that, that is some dilemma.

(05-13-2021, 11:16 AM)Bortolazzi's Barnet Wrote: I would consider preventing any more properties being in the hands of private landlords for rent. And the number of new properties that do so is a disgrace.

And you lot say I am right-wing?

Nope.

No we say you are a nut - what about the companies, and if that law came in I would just set up a limited company if I were a landlord. I can see why you are so highly thought of in policy decision making circles.

I somehow managed to see this despite you being on ignore, which is a shame. I love how I keep seeing that you have attempted to reply to me though. Bless.

I would give an appraisal of your qualities but foul-mouthed and not massivley imbued with intelligence should suffice.

To anyone with any intelligence they would realise that private landlords includes incorporated entities that are not housing associations (which may be in the form of charitable trusts or incorporated but they perform a public function and not normally connoted by the term). That you need this explaining says it all.

Hopefully the ignore facility won't allow your drivel through again.
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Yeah, yeah, 'somehow saw this'  Big Grin Big Grin

You couldn't resist could you - what a twat
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(05-13-2021, 10:40 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:35 AM)Fido Wrote:
(05-13-2021, 10:00 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: Is it to impertinent a question to ask, how we got to the situation where people in work need to go to food banks.

A simplistic answer from personal experience. We lived in a semi-detached house (in Belbroughton) where one moderately paid salary-earner could pay for the mortgage plus usual outgoings and a holiday each year and with a supplement from a part-time cleaning job for little extras. My assumption would be that buying or renting that same house today would mean to afford the above that would require two decent if not above-average earners with one of the main elements being the mortgage. Of course there will be other factors and lifestyles have changed significantly but housing supply and inflation is surely the largest in most cases.

Nailed it - now lets go to the party of landlords, bankers and property owners to get their solution to this problem.

Yet interest rates are on the floor which means access to finance has never been more plentiful.

Don't get me wrong:
  • suppressed interest rates are a problem - they jack up prices
  • Help To Buy is wrong - it jacks up prices
  • SDLT Holidays are wrong - they jack up prices
  • constrained supply is wrong - it jacks up prices
The biggest problem is (as I was discussing with a business partner looking at another BTL in Bromsgrove this morning - bastard that I am) is that even if you wanted to build more houses you simply can't, why?

Well, even during Lockdown construction ran at near 100% capacity, the Tory Social Democrats are spunking billions on new construction projects which will throttle labour supply even further, commodity shortages are rife (it took me 3 weeks to get 2 tonnes of sand from Travis Perkins recently) and inflation is nuts - as one of our former posters told me the other day a 13 foot scaff board has risen in price from £7.50 - £19.00 in a year.

And all the time the government stokes the fire of demand.

Do you really want to deal with something important in this country? sod food banks - they're a symptom. One of the causes lies in our ludicrous monetary and fiscal approach to the roofs over our heads. And some idiots on the left wanted to make it even worse with Rent Controls FFS....

Those long in the tooth on here will remember me droning on about Housing Bonds. Still a great idea, still no downside whatsoever.
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(05-13-2021, 03:42 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Yet interest rates are on the floor which means access to finance has never been more plentiful.

Don't get me wrong:
  • suppressed interest rates are a problem - they jack up prices
  • Help To Buy is wrong - it jacks up prices
  • SDLT Holidays are wrong - they jack up prices
  • constrained supply is wrong - it jacks up prices
The biggest problem is (as I was discussing with a business partner looking at another BTL in Bromsgrove this morning - bastard that I am) is that even if you wanted to build more houses you simply can't, why?

Well, even during Lockdown construction ran at near 100% capacity, the Tory Social Democrats are spunking billions on new construction projects which will throttle labour supply even further, commodity shortages are rife (it took me 3 weeks to get 2 tonnes of sand from Travis Perkins recently) and inflation is nuts - as one of our former posters told me the other day a 13 foot scaff board has risen in price from £7.50 - £19.00 in a year.

And all the time the government stokes the fire of demand.

Do you really want to deal with something important in this country? sod food banks - they're a symptom. One of the causes lies in our ludicrous monetary and fiscal approach to the roofs over our heads. And some idiots on the left wanted to make it even worse with Rent Controls FFS....

Those long in the tooth on here will remember me droning on about Housing Bonds. Still a great idea, still no downside whatsoever.

I've got to say I agree with all that. My industry is financing large construction equipment and April was on of our biggest ever (HS2 kicking off and the extra allowance brought into this tax year) which as you say, will mean the ability to find workers to complete anything else apart from the big projects is limited (if only we had access to a large market of labour who could come over freely  Angel )

Housing bonds would be a winner with interest rates on the floor, i've put my spare cash in Premium Bonds as there is so little to lose (doing ok btw) so they would be snapped up, but there would be the labour problem (small L Proth  Wink ), how would that be overcome?
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(05-13-2021, 04:16 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Housing bonds would be a winner with interest rates on the floor, i've put my spare cash in Premium Bonds as there is so little to lose (doing ok btw) so they would be snapped up, but there would be the labour problem (small L Proth  Wink ), how would that be overcome?

All suitable and available public land should be developed by local housing corporations (LA / HA consortia) with clean up underwitten by public authorities. Public land should exchange at a value commensurate with a "living rent" outturn for the particular locality.

All land where a landowner doesn't start discharging planning conditions within 6 months of consent or doesn't finish them within an agreed period with the LPA should be forfeited at undeveloped value with local housing corporations having first dibs.

For the labour issue (and the green agenda) the state should back and scale prefabricated timber framed housing companies - so most of the non-automated labour is production line factory based, with site labour needing to be far less specialised. If you can drop a prefab bathroom into an Ibis, why not into a house? You could base factories in Hartlepool, or Batley & Spen and show you mean what you say about levelling up.

The state could also lead on the roll out of heat pumps / microwave boilers reducing the price for all and invest in neighbourhood heating to sell to the market at a profit.

I'm not a fan of intervention in the economy, but where the state has largely created the problem through decades of insane housing policy - then only the state can lead the sorting out.
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