UK Covid death toll

[backsidebaggie]

No Baggy1, I'm basing my points on what every world government said when the vaccines came out. And not only that, but the scientists themselves. Not just Hancock's and Boris's particular statements. Gove, Zahawi, Johnson all repeatedly said no vax passports. No one ever suggested segregating society based on a medical choice. Hancock was very clear about it being a jab for adults, not kids. Dismiss him as an idiot if you want (he is), but he was part of the government. If they keep lying, then you have to expect people to stop listening! The experts did not give a precise figure of how many people would need to be vaccinated, fine. So now they're trying to increase take up, but don't know how many need to get it, you think people are going to be persuaded? I firmly believe the booster take up will be lower than the first 2 jabs.

Interestingly, recent reports are that the scientists advising the government are against vaccine passports and any segregation, as they can see the damage it is doing.

But this is the point. They're full of shit - I agree. In that case, why the hell do you think people are going to change their mind now about a vaccine and do what they're being asked by the very people who have lied repeatedly, and got everything wrong?

You say it'll take years to get to herd immunity? And always was? There have been many scientists along the way who have not said this would take years. Only a few weeks ago some were predicting it would fizzle out by spring 2022 (I don't think it will).

And many people are not basing their decision on misinformation. They are basing it on the official statistics for their risk in their age group. Presuming they are all getting advice of youtube is extremely lazy and wrong, and is an example of the division that has been created. Yes, there will be some, but many just look at the stats for their age and weight etc, and that's it. They don't want it.

And "if we need to use bigger spanners in the box" means what exactly? Segregating society? Forcing people? Fining people? You are aware that many of these things were called "tin foil hat" ideas last year. How far are you prepared to go Baggy1? What are you comfortable with if/when the hospitalisations go up and further measures are called for to increase vaccine take up (for a vaccine that hasn't got us out of this anyway)?

I know my stance, and I'm not comfortable with coercion, segregation, fining, prison, or force. That's called being normal! The fact I'm having to actually make that statement is alarming, to say the least!

So you're basing your points on 12 month old statements and you don't consider that we have learned many things this year. I'd bring your understanding up to date if I were you.

And I don't recall where I said people were basing their views on youtube (lately anyway), you attributing that comment to me in this discussion is extremely lazy and wrong.

And I have no idea why you don't realise that everything is linked, if we do see lives starting to be lost then we will have to put restictions in place, that has to be the most common sense statement ever. All this noise because some people don't want to get vaccinated when the overwhelming data on the nearly 8 Billion jabs dished out show it is as safe as any other medicine out there.

No, I'm not basing my understanding on 12 month old statements. I'm basing it on the same repetitive thing happening over and over again. They keep lying. They keep doing things that don't make sense. I'm up to date and I realise now not to trust the latest absolute crap they're coming out with. If you buy the "its changed so I believe them now", I'd learn from the past if I were you.

I quoted youtube as an example because you said it was based on misinformation. Not true. Many have based it on official stats for their age group. That was my point on youtube.

Its not "all this noise because some don't want to be vaccinated". That is a nonsense. Some don't want to. That's fact. Accept it. You may not agree, I may not agree, but that is irrelevant. The noise is happening because some countries are starting to segregate society, strongly coerce people into it, sack them and now in some places fine and imprison them! Jesus christ if you can't see an issue here, I'm perplexed. People are well aware that this is bigger than a vaccine. They're also well aware this sort of thing was a conspiracy theory 12 month ago. Now its happening in some countries not too far from us.

There will be many governments now watching to see if Austria get away with it. if they do, expect it elsewhere.

You may say all this noise just for a vaccine. Medical autonomy is huge to a lot of people. It goes way beyond this vaccine. If you don't get why, then no wonder you don't understand the protests.