UK Covid death toll

[backsidebaggie]

Its simple for me the nhs has looked after me for more years than i care to remember  in the past if they told me to take a prescriptiion  i took it if they told me to be vaccinated i did so and i am still hear
they told me i should get a covid jab so i did 
why would we argue with the nhs  I trust the nhs

Cuz they dun their research… 

Translation they have read bullshit on Twitter and Facebook and watched YouTube ‘experts’.

And DH throws in the usual label that people who have made a different decision are idiots who made their decision based on YouTube. Jesus Christ, pathetic. You are completely enveloped in the divide I have talked about by presuming millions of people have made a decision based on YouTube and are idiots, when that is simply not the case. But you love grouping and stereotyping, you revel in such division and I’m sure whatever anyone’s opinion on this, most posters realise that such a generalisation is immature, inaccurate and divisive.

Have you read the summary from the Doctors on the front line I posted from the Metro? It goes some way to dispelling nonsense that they don’t care if people haven’t had the vaccine and that it doesn’t effect younger non vaccinated people. I don’t care what mental gymnastics those who refuse to have the jab take. It’s an irresponsible position with no basis in science or logic. I’ve given up with the niceties. How much more education and understanding do they need to see having the vaccine helps not only them but others?

Yes I have read it.

Now, have you read the official figures on vaccinated and unvaccinated in ICU? I dare you. Go on. Check them. See if they match that doctor's personal experience of "virtually all" are unvaccinated. But you don't want to see the official figures, you prefer anecdotal evidence from one doctor in an ICU. The fact is there are many vaccinated in ICU. Check it. Look up the official figures. Now, the statistics DO indicate that the vaccine definitely reduces the chances of being in ICU. I would agree that far. I am not anti vax, I am not anti covid vax. I can just see from the official figures, the science, that there is a low risk to a young person getting covid. Not "no risk", but a low risk. And I can see from the official statistics that the vaccine does definitely reduce the chances of a serious illness. But when a young person has such a low risk from covid anyway, and you're reducing a tiny chance to an even tinier chance, that's what many young people are weighing up. Surely you're bright enough to understand that? But that's not even my point. My point is that bodily autonomy, and your immature post regarding that, is a way bigger picture than the one you presented from on doctor's experience in an ICU.

No one said it "doesn't affect younger people". That's a total lie, a silly exaggeration by yourself as usual. NO ONE has said that. But the official figures show that its only a very small percentage of younger people who get in a bad way. That's a fact. Look up the figures if you can be bothered to actually look at the evidence. The scientific evidence. Look it up. I'm not saying that means they should not take the vaccine, as it clearly does have a benefit as I have described above, but that's up to each individual.

You say you don't care what "mental gymnastics" people use. Well guess what, they don't care what you think. You say its irresponsible. I don't agree, its none of my business what anyone does with their body.

There is a basis in science and logic not to have it for young people. You may not agree, I may not agree, but the fact is the numbers of young people who die or end up in serious condition is very small. Those who have already had covid and have natural immunity have even less chance of ending up in big trouble. There IS science and logic indicating that its reasonable for young people not to have it. The JVCI didn't even recommend 12-15 year olds having it (it was a close call). Do you think they did not use "science and logic"? That's the JCVI. Scientists. You are as usual completing ignoring nuance and the fact it isn't black and white. Well the JCVI wouldn't agree with you for a 15 year old, so do you think they are thick and getting their information off youtube? Do you think the JCVI are anti science? Do you think they are thick? No, they make their recommendations by weighing up a number of factors, both scientific and otherwise, by analysing these and realising this isn't black and white. So by your logic, they're thick. My god do you know how silly you sound?

You never did do niceties to give them up. You've become fully enveloped into the divide that has been created, as you are showing by your "all or nothing" posts, calling people idiots and stupid and presuming they have made a decision based on youtube. You DH, are unfortunately showing a complete lack of critical thought and nuance.

So, how much more education do YOU need to understand that this is not black and white, young people are at a small risk from covid (I did not say "no risk"), and it is a reasonable decision for THEM to make regarding their own bodies (whether you or I agree or not), and even the JCVI could not recommend it for a 15 year old on a cost benefit analysis, which is in itself scientific and logical evidence that this is not black and white. How much more education do you need to understand there is also a wider implication relating to bodily autonomy in addition to this one vaccine? The more you say about this, the more you show a complete lack of critical thought regarding different situations, different statistics for different age groups, and then as usual, you decide everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot, and you start calling them thick.

The funny thing is there are a small proportion who do indeed see something on youtube and make their decision from there. A small proportion. They fail to look at any other evidence, and they take a stance that is based on one or two anecdotes. You are literally, exactly like them, but on the other side of the debate, yet you don't see it. Its the same with brexit. You label and stereotype and call people flag shaggers and idiots and infer they are racists. You generalise. You do exactly what you say you dislike about them. You are so similar to the bigots you hate, but on the other side of the coin. I'm a remainer, but I'm not divisive or immature enough to think 17M people are flag shaggers and racists and thick etc. But you revel in the division. Its embarrasing. You're riddled with anger and hate and division.

I digress. Seriously, grow up and debate like an adult, and stop the divisiveness. I disagree with a lot of what Baggy1 says on here, but he responds in detail to my points, and I do the same with him (I only questioned him yesterday when he labelled a couple of things tin foil which was not true). But 99% of the time Baggy1 debates with me like an adult, despite our disagreements. Take a leaf out of his book, despite the fact I disagree with him, he uses critical thought, accept nuance, responds to specific points and leaves out the divisiveness and hate. You're simply showing post after post how immature you are and that you're unable to consider wider implications, a number of factors, and then you resort to calling people thick. You're making a fool of yourself.