(12-02-2021, 05:39 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote:(12-02-2021, 05:33 PM)Ted Maul Wrote:(12-02-2021, 05:26 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote:(12-02-2021, 05:19 PM)Ted Maul Wrote: [quote="backsidebaggie" pid="433298" dateline="1638465237"]
I talked about the knock on effects of mandation and state control. The knock on effect of saving lives is not a knock on effect. That's a direct effect.
I fully believe these vaccines will be forever. I hope I'm wrong.
I also think many many parents believe there is no reason to vaccinate kids, I know some parents (who are vaccinated themselves) that are adamant their kids won't be having it.
But that's the point. If rampant state control and mandation was to happen, it would have by now. The only reason it's happening now are because of the huge direct benefits of the vaccination programme. I don't care if they're forever, it takes twenty minutes to get a jab and I tend to have a yearly flu jab anyway. If it means we can continue living free unaffected lives then what problem. Giving members one injection per year does not equal mass state control and coercion for me.
I disagree. State control happens slowly and steadily. Mandation is starting abroad. Singapore has a near 100% take up but still had restriction in October after a sharp rise in cases and hospitalisations.
And as I've said, medical automony is crucial in many aspects. Many people don't care if its forever. But many do.
The question is, do you care if people are fined/imprisoned/can't work for not taking a vaccine they don't want, perhaps even if they've had covid already? Is that a world you want to live in? Do any knock on effects worry you? Does this being a thin end of the wedge worry you? There's a big picture.
What worries me most is that people would still argue against having it despite the fact that Covid is far more likely to make you seriously ill and kill you than having the vaccine will. This is what I struggle with.
When I say this I would obviously exclude those who are medically exempt from having it.
What about for those who have already had it, even twice? But that's not my point, its the bigger picture.
(12-02-2021, 05:36 PM)baggy1 Wrote: The big picture is the numbers in hospital graph here: Healthcare in UK
If you look at the trends during 2020 compare with 2021 they are virtually identical curves until it reaches the start of August 2021 where it changes. It is no coincidence that by August we over 80% of the population with one dose and over 65% with both. I really don't see what other reason there is for the curve being broken and if we as a nation think that we don't need to have that 80% plus level of vaccination kept up for the short term at least then we will drift into other restrictions. This will continue until the globe catches up and the virus doesn't have a region to mutate and spread in.
No that's not the bigger picture. That's the direct effect.
Why will 80% plus work, given what happened in Singapore?
What has happened in Singapore? 88% vaccination, lots of cases and 1,500 in hospital from what I read - Is Singapore the new Sweden on Twitter by any chance?
(12-02-2021, 05:44 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote:(12-02-2021, 05:27 PM)baggy1 Wrote: So bb, in this country what restrictions on our freedom are in place, and if the vaccination program hasn't given us the freedoms we want what has - I've already given you the comparable stats between this year and last and the difference is that we have had the vaccine. Now you will argue that there is an increased level of immunity from having had Covid, but that is the same across central europe and they are facing a much worse wave than us. The only difference being the vaccination programme being more successful over here.
I was referring to this quote from you
We have a higher number vaccinated %wise than the central european countries don't we?