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Another Big Dave thread - risks etc.
#1
On an earlier thread, about 10 days or so back, I said that a mate of mine was worried about Big Dave being another Brian Talbot and I saw a few posters on here saying the same or similar things. I mentioned a few differences and talked about 88-89 when BT won 5 early games out of 5. On the surface, I'd say it is a fair comparison, and like Talbot, BD/DM is a risk, simply being a new manager/Head coach. He'll have to hit the ground running for next season. The support will want, if not necessarily expect promotion. Some will expect it. Others will want and expect it within two years. Most will want it done with decent football (although winning football is naturally decent). The Club owners and Jenkins etc. will want to be back in the top flight ASAP. 

However,back to the Talbot comparison. Yes, they are/were new at 'managing'. But there are fundamental differences. Firstly, Big Dave has a huge link to the club. An obvious one. He's a legend. Really is. Also a very good bloke to boot. He's got a lot of people behind him at the club on and off the pitch. A lot of goodwill outside of it too. There'll be a sense of togetherness, probably not seen since the first Megson promotion or at least the promotion under Mowbray. I'm never sure Brian Talbot had that , despite the good start as caretaker manager. On top of this, he knows and works with many of the senior players and has got them working for him. He may well convince a few more to stay than , say, Dean Smith would. 

I find it surprising that people think he's an absolute novice. He's not. BD has been a coach for quite a few years. He's earned his corn with the U18s at the Academy, then coached with the U-23s. 4 years at Albion alone. He's also cut his teeth at Blackburn as First team coach (With Appleton), and worked his way up at Albion. 5/6 years experience against Talbot's none. I think people might well underestimate the man. 

The fact we could be on the cusp of a appointing successful Black Manager is another huge deal. In terms of reaching out to the local communities and the wider BAME football one. That cannot be underestimated, either. It is a significant appointment in that context.  

So, I think this is the right appointment for many reasons. Time will tell, of course, as it would under anyone,; Dean Smith or a 'Big Sam' appointment (my thread about Big Sam was a joke btw - I hope the people on the 11 page meltdown realised this). All managers will constitute a risk, but Big Dave is no more of a risk than Appleton, Smith etc. My gut feeling is good. I would not have minded Dean Smith, but he'd have been risky, coming into a new set up. As would most, even McInnes and Appleton. 

Good luck Big Dave, we are all behind you.
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#2
(05-18-2018, 10:18 AM)ColliersWoodBaggie Wrote: On an earlier thread, about 10 days or so back, I said that a mate of mine was worried about Big Dave being another Brian Talbot and I saw a few posters on here saying the same or similar things. I mentioned a few differences and talked about 88-89 when BT won 5 early games out of 5. On the surface, I'd say it is a fair comparison, and like Talbot, BD/DM is a risk, simply being a new manager/Head coach. He'll have to hit the ground running for next season. The support will want, if not necessarily expect promotion. Some will expect it. Others will want and expect it within two years. Most will want it done with decent football (although winning football is naturally decent). The Club owners and Jenkins etc. will want to be back in the top flight ASAP. 

However,back to the Talbot comparison. Yes, they are/were new at 'managing'. But there are fundamental differences. Firstly, Big Dave has a huge link to the club. An obvious one. He's a legend. Really is. Also a very good bloke to boot. He's got a lot of people behind him at the club on and off the pitch. A lot of goodwill outside of it too. There'll be a sense of togetherness, probably not seen since the first Megson promotion or at least the promotion under Mowbray. I'm never sure Brian Talbot had that , despite the good start as caretaker manager. On top of this, he knows and works with many of the senior players and has got them working for him. He may well convince a few more to stay than , say, Dean Smith would. 

I find it surprising that people think he's an absolute novice. He's not. BD has been a coach for quite a few years. He's earned his corn with the U18s at the Academy, then coached with the U-23s. 4 years at Albion alone. He's also cut his teeth at Blackburn as First team coach (With Appleton), and worked his way up at Albion. 5/6 years experience against Talbot's none. I think people might well underestimate the man. 

The fact we could be on the cusp of a appointing successful Black Manager is another huge deal. In terms of reaching out to the local communities and the wider BAME football one. That cannot be underestimated, either. It is a significant appointment in that context.  

So, I think this is the right appointment for many reasons. Time will tell, of course, as it would under anyone,; Dean Smith or a 'Big Sam' appointment (my thread about Big Sam was a joke btw - I hope the people on the 11 page meltdown realised this). All managers will constitute a risk, but Big Dave is no more of a risk than Appleton, Smith etc. My gut feeling is good. I would not have minded Dean Smith, but he'd have been risky, coming into a new set up. As would most, even McInnes and Appleton. 

Good luck Big Dave, we are all behind you.

We ay got a set-up currently.
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#3
We have, it is being rebuilt after McDunt trashed it. Hammond was simply out of his depth, I'd argue to manage it. Terraneo needs to know his onions in order to improve it.
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#4
I remember it started really well under Talbot then just seemed to go wrong. Someone suggested the other day it was with the influence of Big Sam - I don't know if that is true or not. But the team went from over performing to underperforming very quickly. I don't think DM will repeat that - I think if it starts well he will be able to keep momentum.
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#5
Yes, he bought McNally for 385k - big money at that level then.It went off a cliff the following season and we just about stayed up. Woking was the final straw.
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#6
(05-18-2018, 10:49 AM)ColliersWoodBaggie Wrote: We have, it is being rebuilt after McDunt trashed it. Hammond was simply out of his depth, I'd argue to manage it. Terraneo needs to know his onions in order to improve it.

It isn't even in place yet so we haven't got one. By the start of the season we probably will but if Terraneo is only temporary we have the head of this new set-up leaving barely six months into BD tenure. This really is a leap into the unknown and no one has any real idea how things will unfold as there are so many questions. It could be a sublime success it could be awful. We have two and a bit years to get it right I'm very much on the fence as to which way this will all go.
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#7
Good post.
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#8
Good post CWB, the one thing that everyone is ignoring is that DM is not just out of the box, he's been learning his trade under different managers and styles. He's also a very intelligent, articulate and honest man who gets respect from those around him.

So far he's used the tools at his disposal extremely well and when there was nothing to risk he experimented with something different. Managers have to start somewhere and have we become that arrogant that we feel we are too big for a 'new' name to manage us. This isn't the 70s or 80s where there was a much more level playing field, we have an advantage over other chump teams in that we can attract better players simply because we can pay more, so why not take an educated gamble.

Also I think that we, as a club, had no choice - he'd shown he could do something, and he did that very well in the short trial period that he had. If we didn't appoint him after the successful trial it would have raised some very ugly questions.

I am pleased and optimistic that this is the right move for the club.
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#9
(05-18-2018, 10:18 AM)ColliersWoodBaggie Wrote: On an earlier thread, about 10 days or so back, I said that a mate of mine was worried about Big Dave being another Brian Talbot and I saw a few posters on here saying the same or similar things. I mentioned a few differences and talked about 88-89 when BT won 5 early games out of 5. On the surface, I'd say it is a fair comparison, and like Talbot, BD/DM is a risk, simply being a new manager/Head coach. He'll have to hit the ground running for next season. The support will want, if not necessarily expect promotion. Some will expect it. Others will want and expect it within two years. Most will want it done with decent football (although winning football is naturally decent). The Club owners and Jenkins etc. will want to be back in the top flight ASAP. 

However,back to the Talbot comparison. Yes, they are/were new at 'managing'. But there are fundamental differences. Firstly, Big Dave has a huge link to the club. An obvious one. He's a legend. Really is. Also a very good bloke to boot. He's got a lot of people behind him at the club on and off the pitch. A lot of goodwill outside of it too. There'll be a sense of togetherness, probably not seen since the first Megson promotion or at least the promotion under Mowbray. I'm never sure Brian Talbot had that , despite the good start as caretaker manager. On top of this, he knows and works with many of the senior players and has got them working for him. He may well convince a few more to stay than , say, Dean Smith would. 

I find it surprising that people think he's an absolute novice. He's not. BD has been a coach for quite a few years. He's earned his corn with the U18s at the Academy, then coached with the U-23s. 4 years at Albion alone. He's also cut his teeth at Blackburn as First team coach (With Appleton), and worked his way up at Albion. 5/6 years experience against Talbot's none. I think people might well underestimate the man. 

The fact we could be on the cusp of a appointing successful Black Manager is another huge deal. In terms of reaching out to the local communities and the wider BAME football one. That cannot be underestimated, either. It is a significant appointment in that context.  

So, I think this is the right appointment for many reasons. Time will tell, of course, as it would under anyone,; Dean Smith or a 'Big Sam' appointment (my thread about Big Sam was a joke btw - I hope the people on the 11 page meltdown realised this). All managers will constitute a risk, but Big Dave is no more of a risk than Appleton, Smith etc. My gut feeling is good. I would not have minded Dean Smith, but he'd have been risky, coming into a new set up. As would most, even McInnes and Appleton. 

Good luck Big Dave, we are all behind you.


Mostly agree. I was thinking when it was first suggested about BD getting the job, hopefully he'll still be with us by Xmas, that will probably mean he's doing OK.

As regards your Big Sam thread. I was in no doubt it was tongue in cheek. It was just until some posters thought it was a good idea to appoint him that I started to meltdown a bit  Smile
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#10
(05-18-2018, 10:49 AM)ColliersWoodBaggie Wrote: We have, it is being rebuilt after McDunt trashed it. Hammond was simply out of his depth, I'd argue to manage it. Terraneo needs to know his onions in order to improve it.

I think Pulis trashed it too.
Hammond was a tit for recommending Pardew (although according to Matt Wilson at the E&S he advised Pardew be sacked a lot earlier than he was) but has lots of Championship experience (winning promotion twice) as Reading
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