After initial WTF I'm actually warming to the idea of Wagner...

[MassDebater]

I totally disagree that he has a good record, he has an underwhelming one that has a couple of high points that make it look better than his overall management career deserves.

But, I'll support him as he's not BFS, well unless he turns out to be a Saunders. My main worry is that it all feels a bit Blues of a few years ago-ish...

[SW4Baggie]

Like others have said it was an absolute basket case of a club but he will still be hurting from that and will want to restore his reputation to some extent.

Do we know this? He had them challenging for the Champions League in his first season so what went wrong? Covid? Sales of players?

In a nutshell, Schalke have always been a bit of a basket case... they're one of the few clubs that are still mostly owned by one shareholder, and in the Tonnies empire they had a very hands on owner who burned through staff and approaches on an almost monthly basis.  He had to step down LY after a racism storm and it left a power vacuum at the club. 

They had an incredibly broken transfer policy which saw a reliance on loans and some very expensive flops along with youngsters being sold - all of which happened outside of Wagner's control. Above him I believe the DoF changed and when the team restarted after covid causing player unrest, and a lack of training and fitness during covid led to his whole backroom staff being sacked and replaced by the German equivalent of dinosaurs - Felix Megath's old team (yes, the guy who told a Fulham player to treat his injury by smearing cheese on it) that summer.

Add to that a further summer of unrest, more terrible transfer decisions and the team completing pre-season with fitness levels in no way congruent to Wagner's pressing and high intensity game and an 8-0 opening day defeat to Bayern was the final straw.

---

I have actually found the faux outrage over this hilarious!

He is a manager that was being lauded as a Klopp-esque master tactician at Dortmund & Hudds, and it only went tits up when the model changed at Hudds and their size and financial clout caught up with them and they made poor decisions behind the scenes. Then Wagner made a massive mistake going to Schalke, but many a young ambitious manager have taken on roles that are poisoned chalices. He wont be the last.

He has a reputation as a forward thinking, modern coach who leans heavily on statistics and science and enjoys improving players whilst ensuring they are fit and competitive. He also, having worked in Germany is used to the DoF model.

I am quite pleased with the appointment and I think it shows the club have gone into open minded, even though they had their initial preferred options.

I dont think people are particularly outraged with Wagner per se, more the fact that our absentee owner crawled from under his duvet to veto the boards choice of Wilder, and insist on Wagner.

Correct. I’m not anti-Wagner, he has a good record of immediate impacts and will address the fitness and tactical shortcomings of our squad.

The concern is around the potential infighting that will now be going on around him, and our ability / budget to deliver the players he will need to make a success of his approach. He seems relatively inflexible in his approach and putting it mildly most of our players are too old, too lazy and too thick to embrace them

I am not sure the majority of our squad are to "old, lazy and Thick" to be honest SW4. I think the fact the squad improved massively under Sam is testament that they perform better under tighter less "fluid" instructions. 

Regarding the infighting and vetoing, I will keep my powder dry as it it seems that the reporting is somewhat loose and they appear to be trying to justify their lack of "in the know" regarding our next appointment after weeks of claiming Wilder/Lampard or Appleton were nailed on.

I'm not sure we did... Okay and AMN fixed our lack of energy in midfield, but other than Bartley and Phillips who benefitted from a more pragmatic approach it's not like we're heading into this season with a squad of players who look likely to compete in the PL any time soon!

Wagner's approach requires tactically adept and knowledgeable players, they will to work incredibly hard, be incredibly fit and make decisions for themselves based on the flow of the game. We have a squad who have looked well off the pace for the best part of 18 months and look all at sea when they're given anything other than very exacting instructions on shape.
We will need a lot of fresh blood if Wagner is to succeed here as intelligent CBs and MCs are crucial to his system working. Sawyers ought to be perfect for him, but he'll need to learn to move.

[MassDebater]

Like others have said it was an absolute basket case of a club but he will still be hurting from that and will want to restore his reputation to some extent.

Do we know this? He had them challenging for the Champions League in his first season so what went wrong? Covid? Sales of players?

they're one of the few clubs that are still mostly owned by one shareholder

They had an incredibly broken transfer policy which saw a reliance on loans and some very expensive flops

when the team restarted after covid causing player unrest, and a lack of training and fitness during covid led to his whole backroom staff being sacked and replaced by the dinosaurs

I deleted some, now which club's last season did you really describe?! Wagner struggled under the above circumstances, hmmm so he's coming to a club that also struggled with very similar issues... I am actually mildly concerned at this point.

[baggie_ray]

The "lack of training and fitness during Covid" raises alarm bells, as Wagner would have had overall control of this.

[Birdman1811]

The "lack of training and fitness during Covid" raises alarm bells, as Wagner would have had overall control of this.

He didn't.

Schalke had so many issues. The coaching team had no interest in Wagners methods, so had the players doing all sorts of stuff that contradicted each other.

There's a player interview somewhere of the period,makes us when Mel was here look unified amd focused.

[Lurker#3]

Like others have said it was an absolute basket case of a club but he will still be hurting from that and will want to restore his reputation to some extent.

Do we know this? He had them challenging for the Champions League in his first season so what went wrong? Covid? Sales of players?

In a nutshell, Schalke have always been a bit of a basket case... they're one of the few clubs that are still mostly owned by one shareholder, and in the Tonnies empire they had a very hands on owner who burned through staff and approaches on an almost monthly basis.  He had to step down LY after a racism storm and it left a power vacuum at the club. 

They had an incredibly broken transfer policy which saw a reliance on loans and some very expensive flops along with youngsters being sold - all of which happened outside of Wagner's control. Above him I believe the DoF changed and when the team restarted after covid causing player unrest, and a lack of training and fitness during covid led to his whole backroom staff being sacked and replaced by the German equivalent of dinosaurs - Felix Megath's old team (yes, the guy who told a Fulham player to treat his injury by smearing cheese on it) that summer.

Add to that a further summer of unrest, more terrible transfer decisions and the team completing pre-season with fitness levels in no way congruent to Wagner's pressing and high intensity game and an 8-0 opening day defeat to Bayern was the final straw.

---

I have actually found the faux outrage over this hilarious!

He is a manager that was being lauded as a Klopp-esque master tactician at Dortmund & Hudds, and it only went tits up when the model changed at Hudds and their size and financial clout caught up with them and they made poor decisions behind the scenes. Then Wagner made a massive mistake going to Schalke, but many a young ambitious manager have taken on roles that are poisoned chalices. He wont be the last.

He has a reputation as a forward thinking, modern coach who leans heavily on statistics and science and enjoys improving players whilst ensuring they are fit and competitive. He also, having worked in Germany is used to the DoF model.

I am quite pleased with the appointment and I think it shows the club have gone into open minded, even though they had their initial preferred options.

I dont think people are particularly outraged with Wagner per se, more the fact that our absentee owner crawled from under his duvet to veto the boards choice of Wilder, and insist on Wagner.

Correct. I’m not anti-Wagner, he has a good record of immediate impacts and will address the fitness and tactical shortcomings of our squad.

The concern is around the potential infighting that will now be going on around him, and our ability / budget to deliver the players he will need to make a success of his approach. He seems relatively inflexible in his approach and putting it mildly most of our players are too old, too lazy and too thick to embrace them

I am not sure the majority of our squad are to "old, lazy and Thick" to be honest SW4. I think the fact the squad improved massively under Sam is testament that they perform better under tighter less "fluid" instructions. 

Regarding the infighting and vetoing, I will keep my powder dry as it it seems that the reporting is somewhat loose and they appear to be trying to justify their lack of "in the know" regarding our next appointment after weeks of claiming Wilder/Lampard or Appleton were nailed on.

I'm not sure we did... Okay and AMN fixed our lack of energy in midfield, but other than Bartley and Phillips who benefitted from a more pragmatic approach it's not like we're heading into this season with a squad of players who look likely to compete in the PL any time soon!

Wagner's approach requires tactically adept and knowledgeable players, they will to work incredibly hard, be incredibly fit and make decisions for themselves based on the flow of the game. We have a squad who have looked well off the pace for the best part of 18 months and look all at sea when they're given anything other than very exacting instructions on shape.
We will need a lot of fresh blood if Wagner is to succeed here as intelligent CBs and MCs are crucial to his system working. Sawyers ought to be perfect for him, but he'll need to learn to move.

I think you can add Townsend, Furlong and Pereria to that list too.

I think the 18 months of shambles was largely down to poor management/coaching/ discipline from Slav. I guess its where you pop the blame.

[baggie_ray]

The "lack of training and fitness during Covid" raises alarm bells, as Wagner would have had overall control of this.

He didn't.

Schalke had so many issues. The coaching team had no interest in Wagners methods, so had the players doing all sorts of stuff that contradicted each other.

There's a player interview somewhere of the period,makes us when Mel was here look unified amd focused.

I'll have to see if I can find that. You'd think that that a coaching team would be working to the manager's (or "head coach's) requirements. If they weren't, and the manager could not get rid of them and get in people who would, that the manager might resign. A manager needs everybody buying into HIS methods in order to be successful, not their own.

[Birdman1811]

It's a big part of why Wagner left after 2 games. But they never just walk, get a pay off for sacked or 'mutual consent.'

[baggie_ray]

I guess a sacking or two on the CV of a manager is not necessarily a sign of failure on their part these days.

[Peachy]

I guess a sacking or two on the CV of a manager is not necessarily a sign of failure on their part these days.

Moyes is prime example. Shit at Utd and was considered a bit of a laughing stock after a pretty crappy stint at Sociedad. He then got Sunderland relegated before West Ham gave him the job and he has now rebuilt his reputation.

There are always plenty of obstacles that can prevent a decent manager from thriving. I think my big issue is he's not exactly walking in to a united club.